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Is race an issue here
Is race an issue here / Race, Religion & Politics / 5:55 PM - Sunday May 11, 2008
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A Cool Mom (Female, 36-45, Teaching) asked:


Okay,

I have a very good friend who is a teacher also like me. She and I have both been pursuing administrative positions within our school district. Her qualifications are the following:

She has been teaching for 13 years
She has a Bachelors Degree in Education
She is PURSUING her Masters in Education Administration

My qualifications are the following:

I have been teaching for 13 years
I have a Masters +30 degree in Education
I HAVE a Masters in Education Administration

I cannot get an interview, she called me today to say she has been offered an Assistant Principal position.

She is white and I am black.

I hate to believe race is an issue here but I cannot see any other factor.

Thoughts?????


Update: May 12, 2008.
Thank you for all of your responses. Some where quite interesting. lol I did congratulate my friend and I did it genuinely. She told me that she felt bad because she knew I was more qualified than her and I did not even get a chance to show that because I did not get an interview. I know that it is a big political "who you know" game so I am not even going to worry about it. Hopefully, eventually it will be my turn.


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A Thinker (Female, 22-25) answered:

Screenname: nicole88


This would be a case of discrimination if indeed your suspicions are correct. What troubles me is how people judge colour although it's not necessarily ill intentioned-they often hire black people just to be politically correct which is obviously positive discrimination, the same thing.

Technically, unless you have actually got anything to back this up with it will remain a suspicion, it's important to be rational and don't assume it will be a hopeless pattern. It does sound dubious, but like I said-even if it WAS genuine racism there is little that would be done and if it wasn't racist then you would still be feeling a certain resentment toward your friend and collegue right now, or at the very best-that you have simply failed in that advancement.

I would encourage you to pursue your dreams with forgiveness to the ignorant. I am sure that you can succeed because you are clearly experienced, take care.

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A Thinker (Female, 29-35) answered:

Screenname: milla


I'm sorry to hear this.

If it was indeed racism, you could try applying in a more accepting town. As wrong as it is, these idiots are not likely to change.

Let's hope it wasn't a race issue though, as you can do things for the next interview then.

She could have known the people giving the interviews, or known someone who knew them-or she could have been more aggressive in trying to get an interview, or they could have been racist stupid pricks. If the latter is the case, at least console yourself with the knowledge that they will suffer for having a less qualified candidate.

The only rational reason I could think of for you not getting the interview, assuming you two applied in the same way and knew the same people, is that there is some personality issue. Have you gotten bad press by having confrontations with anyone? Do you dress professionally at work? Do you try to make connections with people higher up? Has she taken part in any other special higher education? How are your teacher evaluations? If they are poor, ask your principal what you can do to improve them. Finally, what did your CV look like? Was it done professionally, or did you use a silly format? Did you give your CV to the people high up in the food chain, or did you give it to HR? I've found that HR frequently forwards CVs months later, while the bosses take the CVs delivered to their desks.

If you can honestly look at yourself and say that there is nothing professionally lacking in you that she has, and that you could not have improved your application, then it may unfortunately be a racism issue. If it is, try applying in Boston or another area with a lot of black administrators.

Good luck and God bless.





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A Guy Critical (Male, San Francisco, 46-55, Retired) answered:

Screenname: horsefeatures


....this, I would definitly look into if I were you.

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A Thinker (Female, Los Angeles, 46-55, Administrative) answered:

Screenname: lasuz


Without knowing both of you, it is hard to say. Having more education doesn't mean you would be more effective, better with administrative matters than she would be.

But I think in your position I would ask why I was not considered, or when you would be able to interview for a position.

Regardless of race, there are people who garner advancement because they know someone, because of difficult matters they dealt with and resolved, because they are younger or older, or who knows what.

I would find out what the policies are with the district and ask verbally or by letter, in a very nice, non-confrontational way why you were not contacted to at least interview for an administrative opening.


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A Life of the Party (Male, 66 or older, Teaching) answered:

Screenname: marvinmartian


You are only looking at three factors (OK, four). There are so many more that are to be considered when deciding about these things. Don't jump to conclusions that may be wrong. It is best to ask - just do so in a way that shows an interest in overcoming possible shortcomings as opposed to bragging about your qualifications.

I hope that makes sense.

I see a lot of the reverse taking place in my work, but things like that are very hard to prove, so it's usually best to keep it to yourself.


MM

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A Life of the Party (Female, Indianapolis, 46-55, Administrative) answered:

Screenname: kmf1


sorry. Can you apply at a more diverse school? Apply at a college? My friend in MN was black and he was a principal of a mostly white school. I guess it all depends on who is hiring...I get the age thing all the time trying to get a job. I think some resumes get tossed when they see what they perseve to be a "black" or "Mexican" name or can tell someone is over 40.

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A Father Figure (Male, Boston, 46-55, Artist / Musician / Writer) answered:

Screenname: regnadkcin


On its face it does seem pretty fishy, especially that you can't even get the interview. Who can you ask, in a non-threatening way, what has prevented even that?

On the other hand, and not to *be* negative, but you have listed your joint qualifications -- at least some of them. Are there any obvious negatives that you have decided to omit from the list? (I'm discounting race as a negative for now -- though your presentation seems pretty glaring on its face.) Or any super - qualifications that she possesses and you do not? (Not that you have to present them here, of course, but don't fool yourself, either.)

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A Sweet Sarah (Female, 26-28) answered:

Screenname: vikerrific


I went on 11 teaching interviews 17 if you count the second round of interviews too. There was one district I didnt apply bc they told me if i didnt have 3 yrs experience not to bother. I was just finishing up my masters along with many others, they all got jobs before me. Now I have thought about the fact that maybe i wasnt good at interviewing, etc...I was not fussy, I looked anywhere and evereywhere, even districts with horrible pay freezes, I didnt care, and nope, no one wanted me.oOddly enough The town I didnt apply to (who wanted 3 yrs experience) saw my resume on a website and they called me, and now I work there-the women in the office said they interviewed 32 candidtaes, none of them seemed right, she said from the time I walked in she knew bc of my personality (people are shocked when I tell them I work there, it is an unbelievably wealthy town, great school system. SO my point is that maybe places arent persuing you for the better-theyre not right for you, I am sure there is a great school that needs you whether they need your skills as an administrator or theres a child there who needs you, so dont let it get to you, the people not calling you arent fromt he right place for you to be working. I dont think race has anything to do with it, I think its personality and a matter of timing...

Good luck!

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A Rebel (Male, 26-28, Celebrity) answered:

Screenname: jasonbrenderman


I would say she is a better choice for the assistant principal and it has nothing to do with race.

She is going to be the "assistant" principal and chances are you are more qualifed than the principal himself.

hiring overqualified people for positions when they are better qualified than their bosses is asking for trouble.

That could be why you can't get an interview maybe you aren't aiming high enough up the ladder you sound qualified to be a superintendent or better not just a teacher or vice principal.


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A Hippie Chick (Female, London, 29-35, Other Profession) answered:

Screenname: jadeiris


It's easy to blame the appearance thing- I do (better looking people always get the job, right?) but sometimes it's down to how well you interview or other factors. Have you asked for feedback from your interviewers about why you were turned down? Maybe your friend was just flat lucky. Happens!

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A Married Girl (Female, Miami, 29-35, Home Maker) answered:

Screenname: anonymouse32


my parents came to england - a foreign country with no money or family or ANYTHING - at the same time (and were given the EXACT SAME treatment) as black people - they were disallowed jobs purely on race

they are both highly educated millionnaires now

i have a million and one jewish friends - never heard them bitch about racism either

did you start off in life in a foreign country with no money or family? do you think this is the factor?



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A Thinker (Female, 66 or older, Financial / Banking) answered:

Screenname: nowornever


My daughter started in Special Ed and got her Masters in Diagnostian and is now Special Ed for disabled children. I think the fact that she worked under a principal now in the Admistration office coupled with excellent reccomendations from her principals has opened a few doors for her. I too, would hate to think race played a part in your situation. Ask them for the reason. Good Luck!

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A Mr. Married Guy (Male, Columbus, 46-55, Teaching) answered:

Screenname: e43701


Well, not to rain on your thoughts there, but I have a bachelor's and 2 master's degrees, graduated with honors from college, and have spent 5 years looking for a full time teaching job. The 3 districts that I applied too hired 6 African Americans and 1 Caucasian. Obviously, I want to cry reverse discrimination but it won't help

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A Thinker (Female, Chicago, 36-45) answered:

Screenname: phenomenal1woman


money....u have more experience then her.it's probably hard for u to get an interview because they feel that what they r offering stating out u won't acccept based upon your experience.
i don't think its race...often it's expereince...i've not gotten a few jobs because they couldn't afford to pay me or won't willin gto at least pey me what i currenty make.

Happy Mothers Day ....

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An Intellectual Guy (Male, Chicago, 46-55, Political / Government) answered:

Screenname: ducatii2004


I don't know if it is race that is the problem.
If it was Chicago it would be politics that would be to blame.
Call the Human Resources department and ask why you were not offered an interview seeing as thou your resume is better than hers.

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A Hip-Hop Girl (Female, Who Cares?, Who Cares?) answered:

Screenname: argie


You are certainly more than qualified!
My thoughts are as cynical as yours, hard to believe that this
s....t still goes on!

argie

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A Thinker (Female, Washington, DC, 22-25, Financial / Banking) answered:


I very highly doubt its your race... when dealing with government positions, such as within a school... there are several people who have to clear and give the ok for who is considered a candidate of the position... with that said, there were several people who considered you for this position, and from what it sounds like, they may have assumed you were overqualified for the position. Even though you have much more experience than her, they may feel you are not adequate for the position based on knowing your current salary and the fact you are most likely over-qualified for what they can offer you. I recently applied for a county gov't accounting assistant position, and I was actually over-qualified for this position, however they did not know my current salary upon offering the position to me... Unfortunately, b/c they are based on grade levels for pay, they were not allowed to offer more than a certain amount (less than what I make currently) and I had to decline the offer. Had they of known my current salary, I'm sure they would have never considered me for the position, knowing they could not offer me a higher salary than what I make now. There are several factors in considering people for government positions, and b/c they are based on strict policy when it come to hiring, I seriously doubt your race was ever taken into consideration.

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A Hip-Hop Guy (Male, 26-28, Administrative) answered:

Screenname: drallig9399


I'm black, just to get that out of the way. There is no way in the world you can know the employer's reasoning for hiring this woman. They might be really good friends or their kids have play dates together. It really could be anything. While yes, it could be that its just because you are black.

You just have no way of knowing for sure. It would be much more productive to just congratulate your FRIEND and move on.

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An Intellectual Guy (Male, Cincinnati, 36-45, Teaching) answered:

Screenname: brandon35


it sounds like.... sadly enough you could be right. Discrimination is an issue. You always hear about equality issues, but when it comes down to it... it isnt what you know, it is who you know.

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A Creative (Female, 36-45, Student) answered:

Screenname: fastball


It's possible that they gave her an interview because she had less experience and they wouldn't have to pay her as much as they would have to pay you...the politics in schools is so bad that sometimes the most 'qualified' and most 'experienced' teachers/support staff get overlooked because of their age, their experience or their education..this is not right but it's how schools are run, sometimes they will hire someone who is less qualified only because they have only a certain amount of money allotted to each position and they may not have an option of paying more to someone who is better qualified for the job...:D

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A Thinker (Female, 26-28, Financial / Banking) answered:

Screenname: brown5


I hope not either,wish you luck for next,*hugs*

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An Intellectual Guy (Male, Chicago, 36-45, Internet / New Media) answered:

Screenname: gilpill


Lets assume for conversation sake that you do not have an abrasive personality that has been off putting to certain powers that be, or that you have maladroitly played the political game. However on the face of things, it does look a bit unfair. Not even so much as getting the interview really does not speak well of the administration even so much as trying to give the appearance of being even handed. That to me is the most telling part, they don't even care to so much as keep up appearances.

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A Trendsetter (Female, New York, 29-35, Artist / Musician / Writer) answered:


It is possible there were other factors invovled here that you might have overlooked? Politics can often play a bigger role than qualifications, race, beauty--all those thigns combined...if she knows someone who recommended her or someone she worked for called tehe person hiring, then all the qualifications in the world wouldn't make a difference.

If you can put your emotions and feelings aside for one second...maybe ask her a few questions or get more facts...maybe you can come to some conclusion. I would hope she didn't get hired becayse of race but I would look at all posibilities first before I came to that conclusion. and then if you think that's what happened, maybe you want to apply somewhere where the person hiriing is not racist/shallow.

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A Creative (Female, 46-55, Self-Employed) answered:

Screenname: preciousangel


There was a girl on my sister's job that was qualitified for a job position that was open and she also had a degree while yet my sister had the skills but had not finished college but being that my sister looks white and the other girl was dark..my sister got the position...That happens not just between black and whites but it happens between black people where one is darker and the other one is lighter..Sad to say but true! My ancestors on my mother's and father's side are from an African/European background

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A Mr. Nice Guy (Male, New York, 36-45, Managerial) answered:

Screenname: tnix123


They may have hired her because she will be cheaper because she does not have her masters yet. Keep trying and you will get your break sooner or later.

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A Creative (Female, 22-25, Who Cares?) answered:

Screenname: mysticqt


Perhaps she nailed the interview and winned them over.

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